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Graham
2010-06-15, 03:07 PM
NVPR gives me a naff display for Live TV and when playing recordings. The video is one quarter size and in the top left. Right clicking and fiddling with Aspect Ratio changes the size of the video but the display slows to about one frame per second. Tried several decoders (PDVD9, ffdshow, Mainconcept) ... problem persists.

Decoders are the same as in PVRX2. I can't reproduce the problem in PVRX2 ... it's good with VMR9 FSE and VMR9 Custom.

Video is Nvidia 8200.

johnsonx42
2010-06-15, 04:05 PM
yes, I get this too, was going to post on it later today. I get this with VMR9 on 1080i HD channels. SD channels are OK, and I'm pretty sure 720P HD channels are OK too but I wouldn't swear to it. The same channels are fine with EVR (but of course I'll be needing VMR for the negative aspect ratio modes).

sub
2010-06-15, 05:23 PM
This is an nvidia driver bug that occurs with VMR9, when hardware acceleration is enabled, and the aspect ratio is not set to 0,0,1,1. Try disabling hardware acceleration for now.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=15184&mode=linearplus

pBS
2010-06-15, 07:28 PM
i get this on ati cards too and intel, so not just a nv bug...
tho mine also has 'noise' in black areas, but same behavior in positioning...odd results in windowed mode when playing with aspect, and can also be seen in fullscreen mode..
usually i can get it back to normal by just selcting aspect menu and opening submenu, but not selecting anything..
if i select auto, it shows problem again...

sub
2010-06-15, 07:34 PM
i get this on ati cards too and intel, so not just a nv bug...Thats odd. There is definitely an NVidia bug that can cause this, and is definitely the cause in the other thread (http://forums.gbpvr.com//showthread.php?46944-VMR-rendering-(and-window-aspect)), but you might be seeing something different.

If you F7 though the aspect ratios, does it come right?

pBS
2010-06-15, 08:07 PM
nope..then auto leaves me a vertically squashed screen and skipping..

in fullscreen mode it seems to be ok,but still the aspect ratios aren't right..
hmm,looks like it's about the playback in vid library only...meaning other codecs being used..
you are still controlling what renderer is being used in vid lib. right?

pBS
2010-06-15, 08:16 PM
yea, i'm getting strange codec entries when viewing from video library...
2010-06-15 15:02:17.035 [DEBUG][1] Adding VMR9 renderer
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] Graph filter list:
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - Default DirectSound Device
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - Video Mixing Renderer 9
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - MPC - MPA Decoder Filter 0001
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - ATI MPEG Video Decoder
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - MainConcept (HCW) Layer II Audio Encoder
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - MPC - MPA Decoder Filter
2010-06-15 15:02:21.707 [DEBUG][1] - MPC - Mpeg Splitter (Gabest)

so that's probably where problem lies..tv seems ok on ati, no matter the decoder/renderer...
all about the video library and it's merit based playback..
btw, these are .mpg files..

also, am getting this in logs as playback starts....
2010-06-15 15:08:32.616 [DEBUG][1] - \\Pvr2\e\mpg\30 Rock\30 Rock_20100114_20002030.mpg
2010-06-15 15:08:32.710 [ERROR][1] Unexpected error parsing EPGEvent xml: System.Xml.XmlException: Root element is missing.

even on video where everything's ok, right-clk and hover over 'aspect', now click it...goes to fill mode..without clicking a mode!
clicking on a mode does work and fixes it, but maybe something wrong in the menus?

sub
2010-06-15, 08:24 PM
Ah, its a .mpg file, so you're at the mercy of whatever video decoder Windows picks. NPVR only uses its decoder selection code for file types it records (ie, .ts files).

Do you have the same problem playing .ts files?

pBS
2010-06-15, 08:29 PM
ok, now getting it on livetv too...seems very random..codecs look ok...
and now it won't save my aac decoder choice...restarted and everything..
just keeps resetting it to disabled..

Reddwarf
2010-06-15, 08:49 PM
I reported this a long time ago during the beginning of testperiod. I never got it quite ok on XP and VMR9, 'cause if I found a SD decoder that gave correct aspect the H.264 decoder got it wrong, and using EVR the H.264 was correct but SD (ie. mpeg2) had this problem. One of my main reasons for taking the plunge to W7.

pBS
2010-06-15, 09:17 PM
after setting aac decoderr in config.xml, it still shows up as disabled...ffdshow audio decoder..works for aac normally..

aspect ratios still weird, only fill seems to work right...everything else is squeezed to top of screen..sometimes top-left...even auto..
on 16:9 source, it seems to work ok, but everything else is squished..check that, even 16:9 source is bad..

seems to only be xp as win7 looks fine all around..

sub
2010-06-15, 10:00 PM
after setting aac decoderr in config.xml, it still shows up as disabled...ffdshow audio decoder..works for aac normally..

aspect ratios still weird, only fill seems to work right...everything else is squeezed to top of screen..sometimes top-left...even auto..
on 16:9 source, it seems to work ok, but everything else is squished..check that, even 16:9 source is bad..

seems to only be xp as win7 looks fine all around..If you test with a .ts file (so the decoder choices are used), and disable hardware acceleration in the decoder, does the problem go away?

Graham
2010-06-15, 11:28 PM
If you test with a .ts file (so the decoder choices are used), and disable hardware acceleration in the decoder, does the problem go away?

The symtoms that pbs describes for fiddling with aspect ratio are a good match to what happens here. I am pretty sure that my problem is nothing to do with DXVA but I'll do the tests tomorrow to be quite sure. Everything that I have tried so far was with Live TV and ith recordings made with NPVR (i.e. .ts files ... I assume).

I have no such problems with PVRX2 and I am pretty sure that it is using DXVA.

pBS
2010-06-15, 11:48 PM
nope, it works fine with .ts and no accelleration [mpv decoder]
same video with ati decoder [dxva] or ffdshow[semi-dxva] looks bad on aspect...
maybe a bug in dxva + renderer in XP?

sub
2010-06-15, 11:49 PM
nope, it works fine with .ts and no accelleration [mpv decoder]
same video with ati decoder [dxva] or ffdshow[semi-dxva] looks bad on aspect...
maybe a bug in dxva + renderer in XP?Yeah, maybe.

pBS
2010-06-16, 12:04 AM
doesn't happen with h264 vids tho...either mkv,m2ts or avi...?
only mpeg2 dxva...which i heard for years is broken in xp, but i always got semi-accell working fine..same behavior as in win7..
so it must be something about the new mode of displaying it that is buggy..
dxva worked fine with the old methods..

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 12:08 AM
just to clarify, I get the described problem when using NPVR for LiveTV (which is .ts of course) and for playing back .DVR-MS files recorded with GB-PVR. The same system (as per my sig) has no problem using GB-PVR with any renderer. In NPVR the problem occurs with VMR9, but not EVR, and so far seems to only occur with 1080i channels or recordings (though I've not had time to certify that absolutely).
Per my sig, the graphics card is an ATI HD4550. I'm using the same driver I've been using since I installed Win7RTM in early March. The only nVidia in the system is the mainboard chipset.

edit: oh, yes, the Fill aspect ratio (0,0,1,1) looks ok, all the others have the problem.

sub
2010-06-16, 12:28 AM
edit: oh, yes, the Fill aspect ratio (0,0,1,1) looks ok, all the others have the problem.Is it the same as pBS, with the aspect ratio working correctly with hardware acceleration disabled in the decoder you're using?

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 03:47 AM
I'm using the Microsoft DTV-DVD Decoder from Windows 7. It doesn't seem to have any configuration options? Perhaps I will try some other decoder, maybe ATI MPEG-2 from AVIVO, but the Microsoft one has always worked so well I've never had any reason to even install anything else since I went to Windows 7.

Also, to clarify the conditions under which I get the problem: HD 1080i ALWAYS. HD 720p, never as far as I've seen. SD, mostly not, but some channels seem to show a different version of the problem where the video is moved horizontally to the left but not skewed vertically; one channel even bounces back and forth between normal and skewed a couple of times per second.

I do tend to agree this has to be something between the decoder, renderer and video card driver, but why does the exact same system exhibit no problems with GB-PVR?

sub
2010-06-16, 03:50 AM
I do tend to agree this has to be something between the decoder, renderer and video card driver, but why does the exact same system exhibit no problems with GB-PVR?Because GB-PVR didnt not use the render part of the VMR9 renderer, and instead use a custom renderer, aka 'VMR9 Custom'. I was hoping to avoid adding something similar, but may have to.

pBS
2010-06-16, 04:45 AM
and other times it works perfectly....go figure..
right now tv is excellent...with acceleration...confirmed in logs and cpu usage..
seems like certain well formed streams don't mess it up, but others, once you play them, mess up everything after...
i'll play a bit more and see if it messes up again..

one thing to add, really would be nice to see what mode you're in with F7...like it used to..

yep, even .mpg plays fine now...with accel, while i'm recording something else..
i'll have to see if i can find out a file that corrupts it..maybe a properties thing..

FOUND ONE!
i found 2 videos that, after playing, can make it go from working to not working..and back...
oh, it's 1080i that doesn't work, 720p does...blah...deinterlacing for sure..

so it's any container [ts too], only mpeg2 compression, only vmr7 or 9 on windows xp...
evr/overlay/win7 work with any combination..

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 05:26 PM
Because GB-PVR didnt not use the render part of the VMR9 renderer, and instead use a custom renderer, aka 'VMR9 Custom'. I was hoping to avoid adding something similar, but may have to.
ah, I see, it was sub-magic that made it work before. Conversely though, I notice that when it works VMR9 renders quite nicely with NPVR, no tearing, stuttering, de-interlacing problems. VMR9 Custom never worked so well for me, no matter what combination of decoders, video cards and drivers I tried, neither on XP nor Win7. So I've been using VMR9-FSE for a year or so.

I wouldn't need VMR9 at all if EVR could support the aspect ratios with negative numbers, and I think a lot of other users are in the same boat. It seems in another thread discussing this ("new features" I think), others have pointed out that Media Portal seems to have found a way around this limitation of EVR, and as it's open source perhaps you could find out what they did?

sub
2010-06-16, 05:37 PM
Negative aspect ratios can only be had in EVR by not using the render part of EVR and instead creating the equivalent of 'EVR Custom', where the application is then responsible for drawing all the frames using Direct3D (and you'll likely get a bit more tearing etc by doing this). Nothing is ever easy is it...

mvallevand
2010-06-16, 05:40 PM
I use NPVR with EVR/ffdshow and I get custom resolutions, but it doesn't support the 10ft interface. If some hook between F7 and ffshow could be made it would be good, but it's not a big deal for me, because the NMT client gives me the resolutions I want with NPVR.

Martin

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 05:59 PM
Since the goal of using an aspect ratio mode with a negative number is to display only a portion of the source video, couldn't you set the source rectangle to be less than the entire video frame? ie, rather than trying to push the destination rectangle off the edge of the screen with a negative coordinate (which I gather is what EVR's default presenter won't do), just grab less than the entire source rectangle in the first place. This is what I understand from reading here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa965221(v=VS.85).aspx and here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms697352(v=VS.85).aspx

edit: oops, first URL was wrong, fixed.

sub
2010-06-16, 06:15 PM
Since the goal of using an aspect ratio mode with a negative number is to display only a portion of the source video, couldn't you set the source rectangle to be less than the entire video frame? ie, rather than trying to push the destination rectangle off the edge of the screen with a negative coordinate (which I gather is what EVR's default presenter won't do), just grab less than the entire source rectangle in the first place. This is what I understand from reading here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa965221(v=VS.85).aspx and here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms697352(v=VS.85).aspx
It doesnt work. I've played with those API many times trying to get it working.

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 06:19 PM
you mean the API doesn't do what the documentation says? Come on, that NEVER happens.:rolleyes:

sub
2010-06-16, 08:58 PM
I had experimented during testing with a way to get negative aspect ratios with EVR. It kind of worked, but had a downside that the OSD got narrower the further things were pushed outside of the window. I never found any way to stop this happening. You can try the attached patch which has that functional enabled to see if helps you.

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 09:04 PM
cool, I'll give it a shot......

<---15 minutes later---->

That works great actually. My custom aspect ratios I copied from GB-PVR look a little different in NPVR (4:3 programs on 16:9 channels don't quite fill the screen now), but they're just a tweak away from perfection.

Yes, I see what you mean about the OSD, but I consider that pretty minor against the major benefit. Anyone who doesn't use the negative ratios won't see any change, and half the people who do probably won't even notice.

Much later on, when you're polishing for perfection you could probably fix the OSD size/position issue by applying a fudge-factor to the OSD rendering based on the selected aspect ratio mode. Perhaps something like an on-the-fly adjustment to the UI zoom setting? Maybe even include the fudge-factor in the aspect ratio definition in config.xml, so that it's up to us to fix it as we see fit rather than you having to include code to calculate it.

Honestly though, it's such a minor issue it doesn't need to be fixed unless and until you want to. Just call it a known side-effect.

Also great that now it shows the select aspect ratio on the OSD.

Thanks sub, you're a genius as always!

johnsonx42
2010-06-16, 11:19 PM
sub, can you explain how the Auto aspect ratio selection works in NPVR? It doesn't seem to be the same as in GB-PVR.

To wit, in GB-PVR I had this:

<AspectRatioModes shape="4x3">
<AspectRatioMode name="Auto" ratio="0,0,0,0" />
<AspectRatioMode name="Fill" ratio="0,0,1,1" />
<AspectRatioMode name="LetterBox" ratio="-0.15,0,1.15,1" />
<AspectRatioMode name="WideScreen" ratio="0,0.125,1,0.875" />
<AspectRatioMode name="Zoom" ratio="-0.15,-0.15,1.15,1.15" />
</AspectRatioModes>

In auto mode, it would elegantly select "Fill" for 4:3 channels, and "Letterbox" for 16:9 channels. My "Letterbox" settings actually accomplished an "unletterbox" effect, and would fill the 4:3 screen. Then for manual selection I had "Widescreen" for times I actually did want to see the full 16:9 frame, and "Zoom" for some special cases (like a 4:3 show in a 16:9 letterbox on a 4:3 channel - stupid, but it happens).

Now in NPVR I have this:

<AspectRatioModes shape="4:3">
<AspectRatioMode name="Fill">0,0,1,1</AspectRatioMode>
<AspectRatioMode name="LetterBox">-0.15,0,1.15,1</AspectRatioMode>
<AspectRatioMode name="WideScreen">0,0.125,1,0.875</AspectRatioMode>
<AspectRatioMode name="Zoom">-0.15,-0.15,1.15,1.15</AspectRatioMode>
</AspectRatioModes>

But Auto doesn't seem to do the same thing as before. 4:3 channels fill the screen as they should, but 16:9 content is letterboxed even though my "LetterBox" setting should actually stretch and crop to fill the screen. Manually selected they all work as they should (though they do need to be tweaked a little for the new EVR patch).

Thanks.

Graham
2010-06-17, 12:22 AM
I'm guessing that we no longer see this as a DXVA thing and any tests that I do won't help.

Let me know if I have got it wrong and if there is any test I can do to help.

sub
2010-06-17, 12:43 AM
I'm guessing that we no longer see this as a DXVA thing and any tests that I do won't help.The problem in the start of this thread was definitely related to DXVA. Later in this thread we got on to another topic related to EVR.

johnsonx42
2010-06-17, 01:43 AM
yes, sorry, that was partly my bad... I basically said I wouldn't care about VMR9 not working right if EVR would work with the negative aspect ratio numbers, and off we went. If you can use EVR though, the new patch works great and eliminates any need for VMR9 (for me anyway).

pBS
2010-06-17, 07:27 PM
loving it! :) thanx for that rant... evr patch works great! [plus i second that being able to see current aspect in osd]

and hey, it *is* a workaround for the original posting...;)
i was never a real fan of vmr9...till it worked well...[fse]

and the osd being off is much less of a pain than fse mode for sure..
[i think i'll just adjust skin to have no background for bottom info,probably won't notice it much even]
seems to me the bottom info was off center on another combo as well...will see if i can catch it..
thanx :D

sub
2010-06-17, 07:39 PM
Yes, I see what you mean about the OSD, but I consider that pretty minor against the major benefit. Anyone who doesn't use the negative ratios won't see any change, and half the people who do probably won't even notice.

Much later on, when you're polishing for perfection you could probably fix the OSD size/position issue by applying a fudge-factor to the OSD rendering based on the selected aspect ratio mode. Perhaps something like an on-the-fly adjustment to the UI zoom setting? Maybe even include the fudge-factor in the aspect ratio definition in config.xml, so that it's up to us to fix it as we see fit rather than you having to include code to calculate it. Unfortunately the OSD graph is already shown as absolutely wide as the API will let me get it, so its not a case of just showing a slightly wider OSD.

speising
2010-06-17, 08:09 PM
yes, EVR works, but of course it doesn't solve the original problem that we can only have a correct picture *or* hardware acceleration - at least on XP...

johnsonx42
2010-06-17, 09:38 PM
Unfortunately the OSD graph is already shown as absolutely wide as the API will let me get it, so its not a case of just showing a slightly wider OSD.

so be it then, the upside far outweighs the downside.

johnsonx42
2010-06-17, 09:50 PM
yes, EVR works, but of course it doesn't solve the original problem that we can only have a correct picture *or* hardware acceleration - at least on XP...
this is easy for me to say, having already moved on to Windows 7, but I think at this point in time support for Windows XP ought to be somewhat limited. XP is a 20th century codebase with a few 21st century band-aids, bits of duct tape and baling wire. In many ways Vista was a valid excuse to cling to XP, but with Windows 7 the arguement is getting pretty thin. That all said, I don't make the rules around here, sub does.

pBS
2010-06-18, 01:37 AM
i do notice that all sd material defaults to 'fill' no matter what it was previously just set to...
hd works ok from a quick test..
and no resume on vid library shows...:( a definite must add..worked flawlessly before..
status shows funky stuff, and xml info is sporadic...seems like it doesn't like something in the xml's..
i'll have to get an example together..

anyways, even without accel, it's only 40% cpu on evr mpeg2 and 30% for h264...:D which is fine as long as it plays smoothly..
you'll still get the most important part of dxva, hardware deinterlacing...

but yea, i'd still rather use xp and vmr9 if possible...[even if has to be fse mode]

pBS
2010-06-18, 03:45 AM
on a happier note, i'm playing a channel on gbpvr livetv, and same channel on npvr with it's timeshifting...and get this, it's in sync!
so the delay w/timeshifting in new version is exactly same as delay in livetv in pvrx2...[and it's live![ish]]

so the new timehift engine really rocks! you hit that one out of the park...:)
and .ts can be viewed while in progress from another machine without any tweaking, so can kinda have client mode now, just no control over host..
so client mode shouldn't be too hard to implement...:D or at least performance should be as good as local..[no more wasted bytes and bandwidth for clients! yeah!]
hd should be able with lowly .g nets now...:)

johnsonx42
2010-06-18, 04:27 AM
indeed, the new timeshift engine is quite impressive. I'm genuinely looking forward to using Next-PVR full time once a few more kinks get worked out.

pBS
2010-06-20, 08:38 PM
any news on this? [vmr9 xp acceleration]
will you be looking into this? need xp to have decent blasting speed with mce dongles.

while evr is nice, would be a bit nicer to have acceleration...:)
[trying to keep cpu heat down]

sub
2010-06-20, 08:51 PM
I dont have xp, so I havnt looked into.

I am anticipating I'll need to add an equivalent of 'VMR9 Custom' to fix it, but given there are decent workarounds, its not high on priority list. Instead I'm focusing on bugs and things lacking in NPVR.

pBS
2010-06-24, 03:48 AM
fixed with latest version...:D
no weird aspect problems, an acceleration seems to be workin also! you rock!
[wonder what did it....accident? lol]

EDIT: nope...forgot it was only on 1080i files....
so still weird on deinterlacing and aspect ratios...720p looks fine, it's only interlaced material affected..

maybe it's the pass-thru part?

sub
2010-06-24, 03:56 AM
fixed with latest version...:D
no weird aspect problems, an acceleration seems to be workin also! you rock!
[wonder what did it....accident? lol]I didnt purposefully fix anything on this front. The only thing that changed that might have fixed it was using the users selected decoders for .mpg files, instead of letting Windows choose.

pBS
2010-06-24, 11:59 PM
yea, my bad...i thought i was viewing a 1080i video...problem only happens on interlaced material..[1080i,sd]

stustunz
2011-01-25, 06:14 PM
Im still seeing this

vmr9 plays pretty good but if i change aspect the picture jumps to the corner (or with certain tv resolutions from the start)
vmr9 custom blurry panning etc like 2 frames are showing at once
fse same as custom awful cant watch

whats different from when i played the same files in pvrx2 and all was fine

Reddwarf
2011-01-25, 06:23 PM
Have you tried the new VMR9 FSE or Custom renderer?

stustunz
2011-01-25, 06:37 PM
what do you mean

is there a file somewhere update
off looking now but if you want to give me a link that would be good

johnsonx42
2011-01-25, 06:52 PM
there is an update in the cumulative patch that adds a couple more VMR9 render options that are similar to those available with PVRX2. I think one of the choices may fix the issue you're seeing, but may have other downsides.

this issue is really a video driver bug, but it seems to be a bug both vendors now have and are not interested in fixing.

stustunz
2011-01-25, 07:04 PM
well ive already added that patch
hence the custom and fse double image thing and black screen on first play

im guessing your talking about patch #14

stustunz
2011-01-25, 07:18 PM
why is vmr custom using yuy2 when hardware accel is selected
is this by design ?

johnsonx42
2011-01-25, 07:24 PM
ah, sorry, I didn't see your initial post saying you'd already tried using the new renderers, only noticed the later one asking if there was a patch that enabled them. my bad.

stustunz
2011-01-25, 07:28 PM
its cool
good to know ive loaded the latest patches
just crossing fingers something else can be done
may have to upgrade to windows 7 (cant really be arsed but its looking like it may fix the issues)

stustunz
2011-01-25, 08:50 PM
ok i read this thread http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?48849-NPVR-VMR9-have-wrong-AR-%28WinXP%29/page8 and it explains alot

basically if your on XP and nextpvr with nvidia video card your wasting your time trying to get it right

Reddwarf
2011-01-25, 08:56 PM
ok i read this thread http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?48849-NPVR-VMR9-have-wrong-AR-%28WinXP%29/page8 and it explains alot

basically if your on XP and nextpvr with nvidia video card your wasting your time trying to get it right

I remember having similar problem on XP, I was not able to get both SD and HD to display correct with the same decoder and renderer settings. That was the main reason for switching to Win7. I'v not seen that problem since.