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jorm
2005-03-09, 12:37 PM
There has been discussions of writing something like a bittorrent client for gbpvr so users can share shows with other users. We also need to consider what it means to get a show in PAL if we have NTSC?

I wanted to open up a topic so we can discuss this.

Bittorrent is good, but I do not know how good it is for security. I do not want us posting torrent files to each other. That is too dangerous.

That got me thinking about waste. Waste is a private file sharing program. You create a waste ring of your trusted friends and it supports heavy encryption.

WASTE is a mesh-based workgroup tool that allows for encrypted, private communication between distant parties on the internet, independant of local network organization.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/waste/

Ideally if it has a remote interface command line or socket it would be really nice.

Thoughts? Has anyone used waste?

Jorm

piotre
2005-03-09, 12:44 PM
Hey jorm,

sounds very interesting. I would love to have a sharing option. If something needs to be tested I sign up as beta-tester.

With my lacking programming skills I can unfortunately not contribute more than testing... http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

\Piotre

reven
2005-03-09, 12:53 PM
i dont think we really need to take into consideration PAL and NTSC, since all files should be converted into divx/xvid first, MVP and 350 users would have to convert them back into a mpeg2 file in order for them to play and they can just convert PAL to NTSC or vice versa at that stage, everyone else shouldnt have any problems playing NTSC and PAL formats.

how would one go about setting up a "waste ring"? can you be in multiple groups or only one group?
eg if A wants to share files with B and be wants to share files with A and C, but C only wants to share files with B and not A, is this possible? (i dont get charged for national bandwidth, but i do for international).
can waste download the same file from multiple sources at once ?

Darx-starz
2005-03-09, 02:37 PM
I am up for it. Lets do it. Sounds like Waste is right up our street

jorm
2005-03-09, 03:01 PM
> how would one go about setting up a "waste ring"? can you > be in multiple groups or only one group?
It looks like you have your own key that allows people to access your shared files. You can add other keys from other users and it will connect to those clients as well. So you create your ring.

How WASTE Exchanges Keys Between Trusted Hosts
In order for two WASTE hosts to connect to eachother, they need to know eachothers public keys. This can happen two ways. The first way, which is how you would initially connect to a WASTE network, is by manually exchanging public keys. This is clunky, and generally a PITA.

Once a WASTE host is on a WASTE network, however, it can (and is by default) be configured to automatically exchange public keys with other hosts on the network. This happens through the secure links of the network.

The application also can support a form of authenticated auto-discovery of new users -- enabling recent additions to the network to appear in others' contact lists, automatically.

Trust comes into play because a user wishing to gain entry into the network must exchange public keys with a current participant. Depending on users' trust settings, a user that joins the network by linking to an already-collaborating peer is generally available for collaboration with all others, although participants can set their program to require manually authorization of new peers.

WASTE also provides for high-level information security. The system relies on 1,536-bit RSA public keys for session key exchange and authentication. Links between users are encrypted using Blowfish in Propagating Cipher Block Chaining mode. Consequently, text chat and file sharing is secure and encrypted.

http://tinyblip.com/talks/pushdownstairs/tutorial.php

> eg if A wants to share files with B and be wants to share
> files with A and C, but C only wants to share files with B
> and not A, is this possible?
It looks like it is, but I have never tried it myself. The encryption is the big benefit of this approach over bittorrent.


> (i dont get charged for national bandwidth, but i do for
> international).
Strange that they make that distinction. Probably the effects of living on an island.

> can waste download the same file from multiple sources at > once ?
I have not been able to determine this yet.

Brookfresh
2005-03-09, 10:42 PM
what a fantastic idea. Would this ever become a plugin?
Just imagine if you had missed show or just forgot to record it, all you would do is look on the list of mpegs ready to download.

jorm
2005-03-10, 12:48 AM
the idea is a control plugin would be writen to talk to the client.

stattik
2005-03-10, 05:36 PM
What are your thoughts on the transcoding plugin? Would it be an automated process that would automatically share the files on the network then?

Do you think that more more than 50 users would be interested in this? WASTE doesn't seem to scale more than that.

jorm
2005-03-10, 07:55 PM
The transcoding process would be automatted. Perhaps the user would specify a certain storage space that they will devote to it. When storage space goes below that threshold we stop transcoding and start cleaning up. Also if a transcoded show is more than 3 weeks old we can remove it.

The 50 user limit is both good and bad. I envision small video sharing groups. I do not think we want anything like Kazaa. Getting sued is not a good plan. If the groups are small and people can trade with the friends they have made on here that is probably safer. The thing that I like about waste over bittorrent is that everything is encrypted.

If the groups are small and heavly encrypted if we find that we are breaking some law (since the US is changing it all the time) nobody will know unless someone in one group rats out his friends.

> Do you think that more more than 50 users would be
> interested in this?
If we had this plugin today we would probably have several hundred people if not thousands interested.

Especially since the filesharring app would not be specific to gbpvr only the plugin and if we spec it out other PVR users can write other plugins for myth or other systems.

reven
2005-03-11, 01:28 AM
Quote[/b] ]You'll need one Java base to speed-up the connection other than it would be slow
why would it need to be java based? we should stay away from java in my opinion, i really dont want it anywhere near my system.


Quote[/b] ]Are you working on something we could use to access the web through our MVP units?
the basic idea is to run the program on your computer, and just to write a plugin interface for that program so you can have pretty much full control from a remote, thus it should work on the mvp. you'll just need to set it up on the computer the one time.

sub
2005-03-11, 03:49 AM
I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit on that one.

jorm
2005-03-11, 12:01 PM
laugh. *I personally like java but that is what I get paid to do so I am sure I have a bias. *If I got a job that paid me to do C# I might like that more. *C# is so much like Java anyways.

You can write fast applications in java if you know what you are doing. Well maybe not GUI stuff. And you can write slow applications if you have no clue. I used to fight the same battle with C vs C++ people used to think that C++ was too slow too.

Realistically the reason why it should ideally be written in C# is just because the rest of the project is. *If java is faster or not doesnt really matter.

Jorm

reven
2005-03-11, 12:09 PM
C# is java done right. java has some really cool things, the language was setup really really well, easy to learn, good oo language, just can be really slow, UI are kinda crap, C# is built by windows for windows, sure java is better if you using unix or something, but most people arent, and the people that are, will still think java is crap and love C++.

i use to love java, then i meet C#, we've had some good times together. and now all my courses at uni are using java (well one using c++ and opengl, but most are in java, http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif, wankers!).

Darx-starz
2005-03-11, 02:06 PM
Quote[/b] ]
use to love java, then i meet C#, we've had some good times together. and now all my courses at uni are using java (well one using c++ and opengl, but most are in java, , wankers!).

http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

jorm
2005-03-11, 02:27 PM
The biggest complaint I have about sun with java is they should have come out with a compiler as well. So I do not have to use the damn virtual machine every time. Most places do not care about write once reuse everywhere. Also it is very easy to reverse engineer java classes so you can learn how people do things.

I have had 3 programming jobs 3 of which were on unix like systems. The only windows job I had (have) is actually in java since it predates C#.

sub
2005-03-11, 03:39 PM
My day job is being a Java solutions architect, but it doesnt make me bias towards it. The Microsoft development tools are just so much better, and much more enjoyable to work with.

There is nothing significant in it speed-wise for either languages.

colin
2005-03-11, 09:46 PM
Quote[/b] ]Most places do not care about write once reuse everywhere.

Thats because "most" places have not caught onto "open" systems. Java virtual machines are getting better with each release and version 5 (1.5) was a significant leap forward. You are not going to get assembler speeds. The common mistake people make about Java is, they believe its the one stop solution to all programming needs.



Quote[/b] ]C# is java done right
I would disagree with this. C# is Microsofts answer to Java because Sun would not allow them to make parts of Java specific to Windows boxes.


Quote[/b] ]The Microsoft development tools are just so much better

A personal choice really. Depending on how you start out programming will influence this,

Cheers,
Colin.

jacoup
2005-03-11, 09:53 PM
yer tipstir is right, java bt is faster, than thee bt without java, thee reason for this has yee all programmers here know already this, yee mee just sign up to gbpvr today

jorm
2005-03-13, 01:18 AM
Another P2P option. Not open source but we can ask if they will support or support a command line or socket interface.


http://www.grouper.com/index.htm


Private networks, encryption etc....

hitek146
2005-03-13, 01:36 AM
Quote[/b] (jacoup @ Mar. 11 2005,16:53)]yer tipstir is right, java bt is faster, than thee bt without java, thee reason for this has yee all programmers here know already this, yee mee just sign up to gbpvr today
I can't seem to find the option for this in Babelfish Translator... http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Seriously, though, what was the last part of that? http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hitek

jorm
2005-03-13, 04:24 AM
http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Hard to read language. My interpretation. Dont know how close it is.

yes tipstir is right, java is faster, then without java,

the reason for this has all the programmers here already know.

I just signed up to gbpvr today.

hitek146
2005-03-13, 04:55 AM
OK... That does make sense, now that I read it again... Thanks!

jorm
2005-03-13, 12:54 PM
I posted on groupers web site asking if they have a remote interface or are planning on one. So we will see.

KingArgyle
2005-03-13, 04:36 PM
Okay not to stir the pot up any more (well maybe a little), but everybody is correct in that C# is a much better Windows based language. Haven't seen a good port running on Mono yet.

Java GUI's can be super slow and clunky when using a SWING based interface (i.e. Netbeans, etc). However, if you use something built off the Eclipse framework, much more responsive, and much better tool support.

Point being, choose the right tool for the right platform that you will be developing with. C# and .NET in general is slower than coding to C or straight C++, you have the added over head of the framework to deal with. That being said, I'd trade a bit of the over head because of the convience of the framework. I don't want to have to write all the lower level stuff, even though it may be a bit faster.

Each platform has it's good and bad points. For Java development, after having used both Netbeans, JBuilder, and Eclipse...I like Eclipse more and more each day. The SWT framework is much faster than SWING and it retains the native look and feel of the operating system that you are runninng.

Okay, now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

reven
2005-03-13, 07:50 PM
Quote[/b] ]I like Eclipse more and more each day.
Eclipse is brilliant!

and at uni i was always taught to use SWING, otherwise the controls could look fine on a PC but completely screwed up on a MAC.... hm go figure.

KingArgyle
2005-03-13, 11:23 PM
Eclipse is quick, and has some excellent coding tools. Much better than most other IDE's I've seen for a Java platform.

reven
2005-03-13, 11:53 PM
what about dc++ as an option, you can create a channel that requires a username and password to enter it. only downside is that someone has to host the channel and have a static ip address.