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Takkun
2007-09-12, 09:00 PM
I'm about to cry. Seriously, my soul has become full of demated hatrid and I dont really appreceate that. Sigh.... I think I have almost every problem there is regarding PVR channels.

Actually, this all revolves around one problem: My cable provider is not in the EPG (no surprise, since it's a private local provider who's redistributing DirectTV channels). Comcast's local service comes VERY-VERY close, but uses different channel numbers. I previously tried SageTV and needed only to re-number the channels (everything else adjusted to the change). I've learned the hard way that GBPVR is quite different...

The spillover effects...
Configuring my tuner with Comcast's cable EPG will skip about half of my local channels (weird, but true).
Because Comcast's channels do not match mine, I need to re-name each one to fix the EPG mismatch (channel mapping).
Additionally, I need review all my channels again to set them in the right order, matching my cable service (channel numbering).
Finally, I also need to fine-tune some channels that just don't look right in GBPVR.

(I get the middle two confused, since their corrective actions are almost identical!)


Although the WIKI's EPG-page did help me get this far, I am still completely lost and frustrated. Also, the "channel number" page holds nothing but the perfectly obvious.

With the two Comcast's EPGs: At best, some channels are missing and some look really statically. It's weird, since DScaler and SageTV didn't have this problem. If I knew difference between the methods GBPVR and the rest use to scan, I could look into this myself. Theres also the issue of all that manual configuring. As I understand it, I need to go through all the channels twice! Once to fix the EPG, then again to fix the number-order??? And that's assuming I can get all my channels.

But that was all yesterday. Today (all day, since 4:45am, I might add) I've been tackling the Semi-Manual method (I'd call it the completely manual but semi-reg method) from this page (http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Utility/TuningAssistant) in the WIKI. After a couple of HOURS of work, I see that everything is in the registry as it should be. After restarting "explorer", I re-load the PVR and all my frequencies are somehow wrong! Wekk, I get a few channels but they don't match the program guide, are quite staticy, and don't appear to be the correct channels for those stations.

I'm still franticly working at this and I'll be watching this thread like a hawk! Tell me precisely what I need to do to, and I'll apply it word-for-word! Please, before I pull out the rest of my hair! :confused:



SYSTEM SPECs
AMD Sempron 3000+ 1.84GHz w/ 1GB RAM
WinXP Pro SP2 & completely updated
Nvidia Geforce 7600GT w/ driver v6.14.10.9371
Hauppauge PVR 150MCE (PCI II version)
Latest XP drivers (Non-WinMCE) from Hauppauge's site (v2.0.48.24227)


Note: Log Files - Sorry, but I had this set to "info". If you want me to repeat anything, it's now already back on "debug".

EDIT: I forgot to add that I'm using the XMLTV plugin, with the "MSN_XMLTV_scraper_V.55"

sub
2007-09-12, 09:07 PM
What EPG source are you using? This sounds like the biggest part of your problem, and the source of all your manual work, and not something GB-PVR is directly responsible for. Assuming you're using a Schedules Direct or XMLTV file source that has the correct channel numbers, like the vast majority of US/Canada user you shouldnt need to tweak any channel numbers or registry settings or even run the tuning assistant (which is primarily to help Netherlands users).

If you've got some EPG source that has your channels, but all the channel numbers are wrong, then GB-PVR does allow you to modify these, though this is obviously work created for you by whoever is supplying your EPG rather than work created for you by GB-PVR.

Takkun
2007-09-12, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the quick reply sub!

Actually, I manually created a channels-only XML file using the XML generator tool posted in the wiki (http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Utility/TuningAssistant). From what I understood of the directions, I setup and made the xml file, updated the EPG, restarted everything, then continued updated using Comcast's EPG. The only manual work involved was figuring out Comcast's Channel IDs.


If you've got some EPG source that has your channels, but all the channel numbers are wrong, then GB-PVR does allow you to modify theseThis is what has really confused me. There's the Channel Name and Channel Number. The "Channel names" are in the Tuner's Config Dialog with the EPG stuff. However, the "Channel Number" has it's own tab. Why these two dialogs are separate is beyond me; as they are directly related. My problem (besides over-thinking every little detail) is that I am clueless as to the approach.

I've already tried the channel numbers. This completely screwed me up as the result seemed to jumble the ordering of the existing EPG setup (ex: the 1st wrong channel & station remained linked, but moved 11 stations down the list).

Now I'm afraid to touch the other channel dialog. There is "Channel Number" which I cant edit (wish I could!) and "Source Channel" which I can edit but dont know what it refers to! Is it the channel from the downloaded EPG file or the station number picked up by my Tuner?

PS: To paraphrase part of my earlier post, "my cable provider does not have an available EPG, as it's a small local co."

sub
2007-09-12, 09:56 PM
Thanks for the quick reply sub!

Actually, I manually created a channels-only XML file using the XML generator tool posted in the wiki (http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Utility/TuningAssistant). From what I understood of the directions, I setup and made the xml file, updated the EPG, restarted everything, then continued updated using Comcast's EPG. The only manual work involved was figuring out Comcast's Channel IDs.Sorry, but I'm really not sure what you've done or why. I looked at the page you've linked, but thats the Tuning Assist which is really just a tool intended for use outside the US, but that doesnt generate XML files, so not sure if thats what you'd mean to link to. Also not sure what you mean by "continued updated using Comcast's EPG".

You should try to find a real EPG for you cable system. If one isnt available, or you would prefer not use one, you can set the EPG source to 'none' and use the 'Add' button to manually add the channels.


This is what has really confused me. There's the Channel Name and Channel Number. The "Channel names" are in the Tuner's Config Dialog with the EPG stuff. However, the "Channel Number" has it's own tab. Why these two dialogs are separate is beyond me; as they are directly related. My problem (besides over-thinking every little detail) is that I am clueless as to the approach.These two channel numbers are often the same in very simple US setups, where the user might just be using a single cable system, but often different in complex setups where the user might be mixing combinations of cable, satelite, OTA analog, OTA digital, QAM digital cable etc. This are also more complex outside the US where the RF channel number (from the capture source channel list) does not match the channel number you'd push on the remote to view that channel. For example, channel 4 might be on RF channel 32. So for that channel you'd have 32 in the capture source channel list and 4 on the channels tab.

In your type of setup, ie, in the US, with an analog PVR150 card connected to a cable network, the channel numbers in the capture source channel list controls the channel number the PVR150 card will tune to when it needs to view/record that channel. The channel number in the main channels tab are the channel numbers that dictate the order they're shown in the PVRX2 TV Guide (and the channel number you'd type on your remote to view it). For your simple type of setup, you'd probably want these channel to match in both places.

-Oz-
2007-09-12, 10:50 PM
Are you using schedules direct or what?

Yapi2XML allows you to remap the channels in the program so you could just use comcast or whoever and then change the channels number to whatever they really are.

Otherwise change it in the config as sub suggests.

Takkun
2007-09-12, 10:56 PM
... Tool freq2reg.exe creates a registry file from a text file like presets.txt, and tool freq2xml.exe takes the same text file, but produces an XMLTV file with only channel elements (and no EPG data) which makes it very easy to put your channels in GB-PVR in the order you want. ...
There are a few different methods given. The utility is at the bottom of the page. Sorry, I should have been more specific about that. Easy, yes. Simple, no. It enables users to create a simple channel config file. The app phrases the data into a channels-only xml file (to help setup correct channel numbers [...I think] and create an app to add that same information to the registry (overriding channel frequencies for tuners like mine). However, the frequencies (in Hz) seem way off and occasionally repeated, regardless of what values I set (not exactly part of this support-discussion tho).


you'd probably want these channel to match in both places
I assume you're talking about the identical "Channel Name" = "Channel Number" pattern. Noted, but I don't know why this should be.


I'm going to change gears a bit, as I think our discussion keeps getting off track.
Please-please-please forgive my bluntness.
If I'm going to re-define the channel order listed in the EPG, which dialog must I use?

If I'm going to match MY channels up with someone else's EPG (cause my service doesn't have an EPG), then which dialog must I use? I strongly suspect the "edit recording source" dialog but I still don't know what object "channel source" is meant to define (the channel from the turner or the downloaded EPG channel).


I must sound like an idiot; I am really tired. You know what someone like me could really use? A data dictionary to this app that explains the dev's interpretation for these terms. Rhetorical question...



This are also more complex outside the US where the RF channel number (from the capture source channel list) does not match the channel number you'd push on the remote to view that channel.This is sort-of what I'm talking about. My channels are starting at #1. Clearly I don't have Channel "1", so this is actually my provider's Ch 2, and 2 is actually 3, and so on...

A similar affect can be seen with the Comcast's EPG's TV Guide (cause my cable service is a cheap/lame private company that doesn't have this). My Ch2 is Comcast's Ch 13. Only 7 Comcast channels match up with mine; the rest seem to be randomized numbers (ch 20 through 100). So, I'll need to fix this as well.


Clearly this is not a "bug" or anything like that. I am well aware of this. Personally, I'd call this an issue with the configuration's User Interface.


EDIT...


Are you using schedules direct or what?

Yapi2XML allows you to remap the channels in the program so you could just use comcast or whoever and then change the channels number to whatever they really are.

Otherwise change it in the config as sub suggests.

Thanks, I'll check it out right now....

Takkun
2007-09-13, 12:03 AM
Finally finished configuring the channels and re-mappings and I get a "corrupted schedule file error" which, according to the wiki (link (http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Utility/YApi2XML)), means that Yahoo doesn't have info for this provider yet. It also says to try again later so I'll set it aside and keep trying other stuff.

I could still use a definition for "source channel"...

dark_half
2007-09-13, 12:26 AM
Maybe this will help

http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Config/ChannelMappings

and

http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Config/Channels

The way I read it is you would change the source channel to the channel number your provider actually has it on.

Takkun
2007-09-13, 12:30 AM
Read them last night. But I really should review the Channel Mappings one again. Maybe something will click...

dark_half
2007-09-13, 12:40 AM
In your type of setup, ie, in the US, with an analog PVR150 card connected to a cable network, the channel numbers in the capture source channel list controls the channel number the PVR150 card will tune to when it needs to view/record that channel. The channel number in the main channels tab are the channel numbers that dictate the order they're shown in the PVRX2 TV Guide (and the channel number you'd type on your remote to view it). For your simple type of setup, you'd probably want these channel to match in both places.


Reading this I would say for example lets say your provider has ESPN on ch33 you would change the source channel to 33 and also change it in the channel number column under the channel tab to the same. I take it that the number in the channel tab is what you would enter on you remote to tune to the channel and the order it shows in the guide and the source channel is the the station number picked up by my tuner. Typicaly you would want these to match

sub
2007-09-13, 12:43 AM
Reading this I would say for example lets say your provider has ESPN on ch33 you would change the source channel to 33 and also change it in the channel number column under the channel tab to the same. I take it that the number in the channel tab is what you would enter on you remote to tune to the channel and the order it shows in the guide and the source channel is the the station number picked up by my tuner. Correct

Typicaly you would want these to matchIn his case yes. Outside of US/Canada these would typcially be different.

sub
2007-09-13, 01:06 AM
... Tool freq2reg.exe creates a registry file from a text file like presets.txt, and tool freq2xml.exe takes the same text file, but produces an XMLTV file with only channel elements (and no EPG data) which makes it very easy to put your channels in GB-PVR in the order you want. ...
There are a few different methods given. The utility is at the bottom of the page. Sorry, I should have been more specific about that. Easy, yes. Simple, no. It enables users to create a simple channel config file. The app phrases the data into a channels-only xml file (to help setup correct channel numbers [...I think] and create an app to add that same information to the registry (overriding channel frequencies for tuners like mine). However, the frequencies (in Hz) seem way off and occasionally repeated, regardless of what values I set (not exactly part of this support-discussion tho).I'm not sure who wrote that utility or added that info on the wiki. Its certainly not the steps I would have recommended.




you'd probably want these channel to match in both places
I assume you're talking about the identical "Channel Name" = "Channel Number" pattern. Noted, but I don't know why this should be.Yes, in a US analog TV setup (without addition TV sources to confuse matters), you'd typically have the same channel name = channel number list in both the capture source channel list, and the main channels tab.


I'm going to change gears a bit, as I think our discussion keeps getting off track.
Please-please-please forgive my bluntness.
If I'm going to re-define the channel order listed in the EPG, which dialog must I use?

If I'm going to match MY channels up with someone else's EPG (cause my service doesn't have an EPG), then which dialog must I use? I strongly suspect the "edit recording source" dialog but I still don't know what object "channel source" is meant to define (the channel from the turner or the downloaded EPG channel).
See commensts at the bottom.


I must sound like an idiot; I am really tired. You know what someone like me could really use? A data dictionary to this app that explains the dev's interpretation for these terms. Rhetorical question...Given the number of US users we already have and the lack of problem reports or questions about this over the last three years, I dont think its required.

I'm sure you're picturing this as more complicated than it really is. Most US just create a capture source, select their card type, key in their zap2it/SchedulesDirect username+password, then they're good to go - no having to edit channel numbers or run utilities or anything like that.




This are also more complex outside the US where the RF channel number (from the capture source channel list) does not match the channel number you'd push on the remote to view that channel.This is sort-of what I'm talking about. My channels are starting at #1. Clearly I don't have Channel "1", so this is actually my provider's Ch 2, and 2 is actually 3, and so on...

A similar affect can be seen with the Comcast's EPG's TV Guide (cause my cable service is a cheap/lame private company that doesn't have this). My Ch2 is Comcast's Ch 13. Only 7 Comcast channels match up with mine; the rest seem to be randomized numbers (ch 20 through 100). So, I'll need to fix this as well.

Starting from an empty database, and ignoring whatever you've been doing up until now, I would import a real EPG from schedules direct, or an XMLTV source, even if its a superset of the channels you have available. In the capture source channel list I'd then disable the channels that are not available through your cable company. The channel numbers in this list would need to be set to match the RF channel your broadcaster transmits on (ie, the RF channel the PVR150 will need to tune to get that channel).

Lastly go to the main channels list tab and key in the channel numbers that you want to use to change to those channels. These can be any numbers you want, and will ultimately dicate the order the channels are listed in the TV Guide, and are the numbers you punch in on the remote. Most people in a US cable setup would automatically have these channel numbers matching the channel numbers in the capture source channel list, but you dont have to do that if you think your cable company has used a stupid order or numbering scheme.

Trust me, its not as complex as you're imagining.

Takkun
2007-09-13, 01:42 AM
I spent some time testing only 3 channels and seemed to have figured it out.

Thanks dark_half, but its actually the other way around. If the EPG shows channel 33 as ESPN, the you need to figure out which channel ESPN is being broadcasted on then change its "channel source" value to that. This moves the broadcast to the EPG's channel.

I doubt the other way around is possible as of "1.0.16" (w/out additionally changing each channel's number in the channel tab). Not user-friendly but at least it's solved!

Potential WIKI Submission: http://forums.gbpvr.com/showpost.php?p=224704

Thanks guys, for all the assistance. ;)

Takkun
2007-09-13, 02:57 AM
Not difficult, but a lot of tedious typing is involved (prone to typing errors and missed channels).

Yes, I completed the setup as you described. The channels are re-ordered but the numbers remain. Perhaps that will change after a full reboot. For the moment, assuming I didn't type-in any large mistakes, I don't care about the channel numbers right now.

Thanks again guys ;)