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cginzel
2004-12-28, 04:46 PM
I've been using my MediaMVP wired to the host computer via my Linksys router (WRT54G) with little to no problems. *

I've read several posts that had me a bit worried, but I need to move my MediaMVP to another TV set far away from any wired access... so I bought a wireless Linksys bridge (WGA54G). *All my wireless cards and the router are set to "G-only" mode and I'm only doing MAC filtering (no WEP). *For the most part, it seems to work (bridge/MediaMVP/TV and Router are all in the same room for testing), except that after about 2 minutes of streaming Live TV or recorded shows, the picture freezes and then the MediaMVP goes into contacting servers mode... it will find the server and I can go back to the show, but it will die each time within 2 minutes (sometimes faster).

Questions:

1) Does anyone know what may be causing this and have tips for eliminating it?
2) Does applying the latest Hauppauge "drivers" (at: ftp://ftp.shspvr.com/download/mediamvp/) affect GB-PVR usage in any way? And if so, which is considered the most appropriate/stable with GB-PVR?
3) I'm assuming that installing the drivers on the host PC and hard restarting the MediaMVP causes it to upload updates to the MediaMVP (when using Hauppauge's media server vs. GB-PVR), is that correct?

-Charles

jquinlan
2004-12-28, 05:11 PM
It sound like the stream is not constant enough for the MVP. Updating the dongle.bin, firmware, on the MVP may help but it still may be the signal strength of the wireless could be your problem. If you move the bridge/TV closer to the router does the video run longer before you have problems?

On your 3rd question, yes, GBPVR will upload the firmware to the MVP if required, you can check the version of the firmware file in the GBPVR\dongle directory under properties. This is the version that GBPVR will upload if it is in control.

sub
2004-12-28, 05:11 PM
1) I never used any wireless equipment myself. I dont know whats causing it. Have you tried setting lower bitrates? My only guess is that your wireless connection is not good enough supply the amount of data you're trying to push through it.
2) Yes, it does affect GB-PVR running with the MVP (if you power up the MVP while the original Hauppauge software is running), but I cant imagine it affecting the wireless performance.
3) Yes, pretty much. Its an application uploaded rather than drivers as such. These applications are written to expect a "wired connection", and dont have any knowledge of wireless.

cginzel
2004-12-28, 06:12 PM
Quote[/b] ]If you move the bridge/TV closer to the router does the video run longer before you have problems?
Presently they are within 10 feet of each other for testing, so I doubt the signal strength is the problem...


Quote[/b] ]Have you tried setting lower bit rates? My only guess is that your wireless connection is not good enough supply the amount of data you're trying to push through it
I'm using the medium setting for my 150, but I'll give a lower bit rate a try and see what happens... I was thinking that 802.11G would be enough to stream most video and other posts elsewhere seem to indicate that it would... but hey! What do I know... mine isn't working http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

-Charles

cginzel
2004-12-29, 05:14 AM
Sub,

I've cranked down the quality settings for Live TV so I could see where it would become stable... but even @ 3500Kbits/sec constant and NTSC 352x480 / PAL 352x576 it still blips off!

The thing I'm curious about is the request size I see in the log. Regardless of the quality setting, the size is always 200000 bytes... shouldn't the size decrease or does that just contain more time at lower quality?

12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.015 VERBOSE [69] waiting for livetv data! File size is: 234819520
12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.109 VERBOSE [69] Request 200000 bytes (file size:234905536 file location: 234800000)
12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.109 VERBOSE [69] about to check
12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.109 VERBOSE [69] ...livetv mode
12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.203 VERBOSE [69] waiting for livetv data! File size is: 234997696
12/28/2004 10:48:41 PM.296 VERBOSE [69] waiting for livetv data! File size is: 235093952
12/28/2004 10:48:42 PM.468 VERBOSE [68] MVP data read: 1
12/28/2004 10:48:42 PM.468 VERBOSE [68] MVP request processed
12/28/2004 10:49:03 PM.484 VERBOSE [68] MVP data taking too long, connection must have been dropped!
12/28/2004 10:49:03 PM.484 VERBOSE [69] MVP media connection recycle requested
12/28/2004 10:49:04 PM.593 VERBOSE [2] StopLiveTV()
12/28/2004 10:49:06 PM.593 VERBOSE [2] getValue() loading new key/value into cache: /settings/NetRadioBufferSize
12/28/2004 10:49:06 PM.593 VERBOSE [2] getValue: /settings/NetRadioBufferSize : 96000
12/28/2004 10:49:06 PM.593 INFO [2] NetRadio buffer size is: 96000
12/28/2004 10:49:07 PM.140 ERROR [68] MVPWorkerThread - Connection lost, waiting a new one
12/28/2004 10:49:07 PM.375 VERBOSE [68] Rendering MenuMenuTask

Just to be sure... If I edit and save the Live TV settings and then watch Live TV from the TV Guide, GB-PVR will request the PVR-150 to encode at those settings, right?!

-Charles

sub
2004-12-29, 05:29 AM
Quote[/b] ]The thing I'm curious about is the request size I see in the log. *Regardless of the quality setting, the size is always 200000 bytes... *shouldn't the size decrease or does that just contain more time at lower quality?
The size is always 200000 bytes, which incidently is very very little video data. This buffer size typically represents only a few hundred milliseconds of video. This is the buffer size requested by the MVP, and is the same as when you use the original Hauppauge software.

Unfortunately I never used any wireless networking myself, so I'm not a good person to answer questions on it. That said, if you can get the near the limits of 802.11G, you should in theory be in good shape to watch video. Sorry, I know that doesnt help matters. Maybe someone with more experience in this area will be able to help you out.

cginzel
2004-12-29, 02:26 PM
Sub,

This information may not be helpful, but I did a test late last night where I stopped the GB-PVR server and started the Media MVP server and I was able to watch a whole hour of a show pre-recorded by GB-PVR using the default medium quality settings. *To make it even harder on the streaming, I also ripped a DVD across the same wireless network saving it to the same box serving up the streaming media!

This only shows that the bandwidth of my 802.11g wireless network is more than sufficient to play back that quality level...

However, I want to use GB-PVR instead because of all of the features! *Is there any kind of network analysis I can do that would help you determine why GB-PVR cannot do what Hauppauge's own software can?

-Charles

bryan
2004-12-29, 03:06 PM
Charles,
I am not a network expert by any means, but I did get a Wireless "B" router and bridge to work with my MVP and GBPVR. I have the quality set to 3500, constant, 720x480 and LiveTV works fine. There are two things that I have found that will cause the video to freeze or studder. They are cordless phones and microwave ovens. But the last few releases of GBPVR have been very forgiving and almost always will resume the video.

This may not show you anything but you might give it a try. When I first started playing with a wireless MVP, I upgraded my network to "G" but could never get video to play without studdering. As a test, I set the "G" router and bridge to work in "B" mode and started getting acceptable video playback. Then I just returned the "G" equipment and have been using the "B" stuff ever since.

This may not be much help but I just wanted you to know that there are some people using GB-PVR LiveTV over wireless "B", without any problems.

Bryan

cginzel
2004-12-29, 03:35 PM
Quote[/b] ]This may not show you anything but you might give it a try. When I first started playing with a wireless MVP, I upgraded my network to "G" but could never get video to play without studdering. As a test, I set the "G" router and bridge to work in "B" mode and started getting acceptable video playback.
Now that's scary... I've got mine set to G-only right now having also upgraded all parts of my wireless network to G. As I understand it, B/G mix mode actually brings down the overall throughput, even for G clients...


Quote[/b] ]This may not be much help but I just wanted you to know that there are some people using GB-PVR LiveTV over wireless "B", without any problems.
Right, that makes sense...


Quote[/b] ]That said, if you can get the near the limits of 802.11G, you should in theory be in good shape to watch video.
I'm not sure why sub says that... At the default highest quality level, the mpeg should be only at 9Mbits/sec. *I've read elsewhere that with 802.11b, because of the overhead, you can expect an actual throughput of about 5-6Mbits/sec. *The theoretical limit for 802.11g is 54Mbits/sec, so assuming I'm only getting half as much (27Mbits/sec), I should be able to stream 3 high quality recordings!

Like I said in my previous post, the Hauppauge software did not have a hick-up playing the recorded show including other heavy wireless network traffic... that leads me to believe GB-PVR is not properly handling the communications in a timely manner... but I've been known to be wrong before! http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

-Charles

bgowland
2004-12-29, 05:22 PM
Charles,

Are you running a firewall? If so, try switching it off temporarily to see if it fixes the problem.

I only suggest this because I have a wireless MP3/WMA streamer and firewalls can cause similar problems, i.e., the music streams for a certain time and then the connection is reset because the firewall isn't allowing full communications.

Brian

cginzel
2004-12-29, 07:29 PM
I'm not running a firewall on the host server, but the router has a firewall blocking the outside world... You're not talking about that one are you?

-Charles

bgowland
2004-12-30, 04:56 PM
No - it doesn't apply with your setup. It might only have applied if you were running a s/w firewall on the host server itself. Router-based firewalls don't (normally) process traffic on what is considered the internal network - only between the internal and external networks. Oh well, I thought I'd suggest it anyway.

Brian

cginzel
2004-12-30, 05:05 PM
I turned off my anti-virus last night to see if that was possibly interfering, but the problem still persisted... http://gbpvr.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I played around with Beyond TV and the open source plug-in that works with the MediaMVP and while Beyond TV is very impressive, the plug-in is just a replacement of the Hauppauge Media Server interface (or so it appears). So it doesn't carry over all that same functionality to the MediaMVP as GB-PVR does...

-Charles

cginzel
2004-12-31, 02:53 PM
Okay. I seem to have found a solution to my problem!!!

It seems that changing my host computer's NIC (Broadcom 440x) setting for "Speed & Duplex" from "Auto" to "100 Mb Full" does the trick!

I'm not sure I understand why that would be... but it seems to be even more stable now with the wireless adapter than it did when I had it wired so this probably was a problem all along but was only made worse by the wireless connection.

Now I'm looking forward to the next GB-PVR release which should work even better with a MSDE backend!

-Charles

sub
2004-12-31, 04:08 PM
Great. Thanks for letting us know.

bgowland
2004-12-31, 05:38 PM
Quote[/b] (cginzel @ Dec. 31 2004,09:53)]It seems that changing my host computer's NIC (Broadcom 440x) setting for "Speed & Duplex" from "Auto" to "100 Mb Full" does the trick!

I'm not sure I understand why that would be...
Under normal circumstances, the hardware at both ends of an ethernet connection would be set to Auto and would effectively negotiate speed and duplex modes. There are occassions, however, when the two ends 'misunderstand' each other and they end up running in different modes. As long as they both use the same speed, you will get communication but if one is running as full duplex (can send and receive simultaneously) and the other as half duplex (one or the other at any given time), you would normally see a great deal of packet loss etc.

With a 'real-time' application such as streaming video (or even audio), timing is obviously critical but with all the packet loss going on, the jumbled communication will effectively breakdown.

Just think of a television interviewer talking to somebody via a satellite link where there is a several second delay - if the two don't observe a half-duplex approach then the conversation becomes unintelligible.

Brian

cginzel
2004-12-31, 09:50 PM
I've read in other forums that supposedly the MediaMVP runs at half-duplex, but when I set my host NIC to "100 MB Half" it would still cut out, but at full-duplex is works without a hitch!

I suppose it could have something to do with the fact that I have a wireless adapter and router between the host PC and the MediaMVP.

-Charles

bgowland
2005-01-01, 02:55 AM
These settings are for physical and not logical connections.

The fact that you have several boxes (PC, router, wireless bridge, MVP) in the mix doesn't actually matter - it is the physical link between your PC and the router that is important. The Auto discovery is presumably failing (normally a bug in a NIC driver) and the router is expecting 100BT/FD but the NIC driver is using 100BT/HD.

It doesn't matter what the MVP wants as it isn't physically connected to the PC - as long as it and the wireless bridge are happy at the physical level and the PC and router are happy at a physical level then things should work fine.

Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
Brian